Donald Trump’s interview with Corriere della Sera, where he calls Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni “unacceptable,” and his remarks targeting the Pope continue to resonate in Italy.
This confrontation between global figures reveals a deeper fracture within the West, where politics and religion are overlapping in unexpected ways.
The exchange between Trump and Pope Leo XIV fits squarely within this context, amplifying its contradictions. We discussed this with Massimo Faggioli, professor of theology at Trinity College Dublin and a leading observer of ecclesial and transatlantic dynamics.
Q: Are we facing an unprecedented clash?
A: Yes, this is unprecedented. Even presidents perceived as anti-Catholic, such as Woodrow Wilson, never went this far.
- With Trump, there is something new: the claim of political and cultural superiority over American Catholicism.
- It is as if he were saying that the Pope should not have a voice in the United States. And that image of himself dressed as the Pope was extremely telling.
Q: How does this episode change relations between Washington and the Vatican?
A: It reshapes the coordinates quite significantly. Today we have an American Pope, which makes it impossible to accuse him of anti-Americanism, as was often the case with Pope Francis.
- Trump’s America is reacting to secularization by trying to give itself a religious mission: fighting Islam, feminists, and so-called woke culture. This redefines how American politics looks at the Vatican.
Q: Does Trump seem to attribute to himself a religious role as well?
A: No American president has ever claimed a religious function for himself. What we are seeing is part of a broader redefinition. Some figures around Trump clearly express this idea.
- On the other side, the Vatican continues to promote a multilateral vision, while in the United States that perspective is increasingly less shared.
Q: So how much of this clash is personal?
A: There is clearly a personal dislike, but it would be reductive to stop there. Beneath it lies a deeper shift in the relationship between politics and religion. We are in a phase where the balances we have known over the past decades are breaking down.
Q: Pope Leo XIV’s response seemed unusual for his style.
A: He showed his claws. He did not ignore the situation. He made it clear that he would not be intimidated. This is not a political debate in the narrow sense—it is a confrontation over fundamental values. And that marks a novelty in his pontificate.
Q: A change of pace?
A: Yes, a second beginning. The world of 2026 is more unstable than the one in which Leo was elected. The Pope must respond to what is happening globally, not to Trump as such.
- But inevitably, this dynamic forces him to present a different, more assertive face.
Q: How much does his original background matter?
A: A great deal. Leo comes from an ecclesial environment — Chicago — that is very familiar with politics and does not shy away from confrontation. He did not start this clash, but he has not chosen to avoid it either once he was drawn into it.
Q: What is the Vatican’s interest at this stage?
A: It is not about winning a clash with Trump. The priority is a less unstable international situation. That can only happen with a more predictable United States.
- The Vatican aims to restore normal relations and lower the tone, but for now these efforts seem to have stalled.
- The issue is that the United States appears to be in the hands of a highly personalized leadership.
Q: Beyond the immediate episode: what does the Africa trip envisioned by Leo XIV say about the direction of his pontificate?
A: It is highly significant. It is the first trip he conceived, and it clearly indicates where the Church is looking.
- From North Africa, such as Algeria, to the heart of sub-Saharan Africa — these are decisive regions for the future of Christianity.
- It is a complex world, marked by religious pluralism, demographic growth, tensions with Islam, and social issues such as polygamy. A significant part of the future of the Catholic Church will be shaped there.
